EXTRA INTERVIEW: WARREN ELLIS BROUGHT ME TEA
BY MONTE WILLIAMS

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Warren Ellis is widely considered to be the greatest thing to happen to comics in the past decade, and his intelligence is proven by his decision to stay as far from America as possible. However, we all lose our conviction and sense at times, and Ellis is no exception. So it was that Warren recently left his mother land of England and ventured again to our humble shores for the October Revolution Tour, hyped as "Ten days, six cities, one man." I was fortunate enough to attend Ellis’ final signing, at San Francisco's own Comix Experience on October 8.

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MW: Welcome back to America. You've probably noted our literacy rate isn't much to speak of, and-

WE: Yeah.

MW: Those who do read don't tend to read comics.

WE: Uh-huh.

MW: Hobbyists don't give a fuck about comics anymore, readers don't YET. So, why should our braying American sheep read comics?

WE: Comics are just words and pictures. They're just another way to tell a story. And they're the purest of the visual narrative media, 'cause there are fewer people between the creator and the audience, so the voice comes out without 500 execs...

MW: Yeah, without the bureaucracy interfering, that's true.

WE: Yeah. There, there are no filters. So it's very nearly as pure a form of storytelling as prose. And in fact, it's an older medium than film.

MW: Yeah, well, you know, Scott McCloud argues that it goes back to-

WE: Well, I mean Scott McCloud will argue that it goes back to cave paintings.

MW: Yeah, exactly.

WE: I would at least argue that it goes back to the 1880's.

MW: You're gonna be responding to his works now. Are you actually gonna do a comic book response, or-?

WE: Yeah. I'm actually-- yeah, because he did Reinventing Comics as a comic and I wanted to write out a response and review of the work; I'm gonna try and do that in comics form, as well.

MW: I didn't know if it'd be just a mini-strip at CBR (www.comicbookresources.com, home of Ellis' weekly Come In Alone column), or-?

WE: It would be a web comic on CBR, yeah.

MW: So, who's doing the artwork on that?

WE: Don't know yet. It's still in the planning stages.

MW: Ah. McCloud should appreciate that you're doing it as a web comic, at least.

WE: (laughter.)

MW: Is it going to be mostly favorable response, or do you not want to get into it too much yet?

WE: Ah, I don't want to get too much into it right now.

MW: Understood. I have a quote here from you, from one of your recent columns: "I'm on the verge of taking my custom as a buyer of comics away from comics stores that can't be arsed to display comics in the window."

WE: Yeah.

MW: "I'm sick of the argument that putting Pokemon in the window brings new people into the store, because all it does is bring in people who buy Pokemon shit and fuck off out again."

WE: Yeah.

MW: I think that's really important, I think it's really great that a creator is saying that. I actually wrote up a little rant about one of our local comic book stores, and I called them and said, "Okay, I'm going to write about your store, you have one sentence." You know, "Promote your store." And all they said was, "We have a Major League Baseball card game coming out."

WE: Well, there ya go!

MW: They didn't even mention comic books.

WE: Yeah.

MW: Also, I was in there the other day, and they've sort of expanded their trade paperbacks a little bit, which is a good sign. And yet, like so many stores, their TPB stock is about 5% of what they have in the way of gaming books, role-playing and such.

WE: Sure.

MW: I asked them about this, and apparently, most of their money comes from the gaming books, so how do you respond to something like that? What would you tell those people?

WE: Well, you know, if you're not a comic book store, then don't bother telling people you're a comic book store. Don't have the word "Comics" in the title. Stop pretending. If you're a comic book store then you. Sell. Comics. You know, I don't hear bookstores complaining that they need to have toys in the window to bring people in to buy their books.

MW: Yeah, or music stores.

WE: Yeah, yeah. If you're a comic book store then you're in the business of selling comics. Either do that, or fuck off.

MW: I hear that.

WE: It is really very simple. That's why I like Comix Experience. They have comics in the window; they build displays-

MW: Oh, your display is wonderful, by the way. What they did for you, for the signing, I was blown out by that.

WE: They do it for everybody.

MW: Yeah, that's really rare. There's one store around me that does, it's called the Comic Book Box, in Petaluma.

WE: Uh-huh.

MW: It's a really neat store. Beyond that, they're all like, "So-and-So's Cards and Comics," you know-

WE: Yeah.

MW: Your Hellblazer story "Shoot" was recently made available on-line.

WE: It was pirated on the web, yes.

MW: (Nervous laughter.) However briefly, I don't know if it's still available. I was wondering if, now that some time has passed, do you have any new insights to offer about it being censored and/or any hope that maybe your arc --which was fabulous-- would ever be collected in a trade, or-?

WE: I think, after "Shoot," they would rather just pretend I wasn't there, to be honest. If they were gonna collect it they would have collected it by now because, you know, sales were very good, it attracted a lot of attention, and... "Shoot" just made life very difficult for everybody. In retrospect, no one really wanted to hear what the book was saying.

MW: See, that's sad to me, 'cause I think it was really probably the strongest issue you did, I managed to read it on-line, and it floored me. My fiancee, who doesn't even read comics, I had her sit down and read it, it's just one of those things you wanna pass on, and I can't because, you know, they wouldn't sell it to us.

WE: Yeah.

MW: So, you have no more hope of them ever publishing it now than you did?

WE: No, no. It's a message that no one in the mass media, certainly, wants to hear, which is, There's Nothing to Blame. It wasn't because of video games or... TV or movies or anything else Joe Lieberman wants to eliminate from human culture this week. It's down to two kids who were in their basement making bombs. And the simple fact of the matter is, no one is gonna understand why things like Columbine happen, and why they will continue to happen until people. Start. Talking. To kids. And no one... no one did that, you know? Um, just getting religion (laughter) is not the answer. I mean, you know, I appreciate that you, you grieve for your dead kid, but martyring and sainting that kid is not the answer. Talking to that kid's friends and finding out what the fuck is happening in that culture, and why people are being shot and people are standing there and, you know-

MW: Why the kids aren't even surprised it happened, yeah.

WE: Yeah! Yeah. No one is addressing this. And... that's what "Shoot" addressed and that's what no one wanted to hear. In the final analysis, no one wants to hear that.

MW: It's the curse of being willing to say those things: sometimes they won't let you be heard. Let's see... I know next to nothing in the way of gaming, be it role-playing, card games or video games, but you're set to publish something for... White Wolf, is that right?

WE: I'm writing a piece of prose for White Wolf.

MW: Ah, cool, is it gonna be, like-?

WE: It's going to appear in one of their game books. I know, you know, next to nothing about that whole business. But they came to me and asked me to write this piece of prose for their game, but this is nothing I've ever done before. At this point in my career, I'm looking for the interesting challenge as much as anything. Which is why I'm also writing computer games and why I'm also creating and writing an animated series for the web. I'm looking for the challenge now, to do new things.

MW: That's great, are these projects gonna be something that you think your comic book readers would enjoy? Should we follow you, and why?

WE: It'd be nice if those guys followed me, but it'd be even nicer if I attached a whole new audience through these things so I can bring back to the comics.

MW: I was wondering if you'd indulge me in a bit of a sillier question.

WE: Sure.

MW: If Jenny Sparks and Elijah Snow sat down for a go at chess, who do you think would win?

WE: Jenny Sparks.

MW: Really? No hesitation...

WE: Without a doubt. She has the military mind; Elijah Snow's the detective.

MW: That makes sense, she is more of a strategist.

WE: Yeah.

MW: Do you miss writing those characters?

WE: Uh, Jenny, no. I don't. I don't miss writing Jenny.

MW: Well, you got to play with her quite a bit.

WE: Yeah, yeah. I created her, uh, I wrote her over a period of three years, you know. For a character I don't own, that's enough.

MW: One last question for you to indulge me -well, I guess you're indulging me for all of them.

WE: (laughter.)

MW: Another silly question, at least: If you could kill any comic book character (permanently, mind you)-

WE: Hmm.

MW: Who would it be, how would it be, why would it be?

WE: Spider-Man.

MW: Really? (laughter.)

WE: See, 'cause Spider-Man is a kid's character. He teaches appalling lessons. Spider-Man becomes more potent when he has attention. Spider-Man sees his uncle killed because he couldn't be arsed to help catch a burglar who ran right past him, having, like, robbed an old lady's apartment, it's that same burglar who killed Uncle Ben.

MW: Yeah.

WE: (sarcastic) "But it's cool 'cause that means he understands responsibility now." No, it's a fucking awful kid's character. He teaches appalling life lessons. And the little bastard should be exterminated.

MW: (laughter.)

WE: If you're going to do a kid's character, do kid's comics, do them well. I mean, you know, the best piece of art for kids right now in the commercial arena is Powerpuff Girls.

MW: Hmm.

WE: Teaches all the right lessons. I mean, they're great, they rescue people-

MW: And yet it's subversive enough that you and I can enjoy it, too.

WE: Yeah! They, they rescue people and they do all the right things and they have problems, but, you know, they think about them and solve them (which is important.) As opposed to just, "Oh Jesus, my uncle's dead, I understand now."

MW: (laughter.) Yeah, it's that vigilante moral code that so many comics fall prey to.

WE: Yeah. Yeah. And, it (Powerpuff Girls) teaches little girls the lesson that in fact all men are useless.

MW: (laughter.)

WE: And women run the world. Now, my little girl loves it, and I'm happy for her to watch it, because, you know, this teaches, a very important lesson.

MW: That IS a good lesson.

WE: Men are crap.

MW: (laughter.) I wouldn't argue the point.

WE: (laughter.) No.

MW: I remember reading -I don't recall now if this was one of your Comic Book Resources columns or some other, random column you wrote, but uh, that you get to bring home the DC comics, the comp copies-

WE: Yeah, I get the big box of shite from DC.

MW: And your daughter was going nuts for Powerpuff Girls-

WE: Yeah!

MW: And yet, people aren't tapping that yet.

WE: No.

MW: That's ridiculous.

WE: Yeah, I mean, she practically has my arm off to get those things, you know?

MW: Speaking of men being useless- I mean, we could go on all day.

WE: (laughter.)

MW: Are you troubled or disappointed by how few women-in America, at least; I don't know the European reading habits- but how few women read comics, or create comics for that matter? And have you ever consciously targeted your audience? If so... will you or have you ever targeted women specifically?

WE: Uh, I never target my audience at all. My audience is me. I write the things I want to read. If someone else enjoys it or thinks they’re great, that's terrific. But my audience is me. I write for myself. That said, books like Transmet have a larger frame of audience than almost all other comics. I was signing in New York, and every one person in ten was a girl.

MW: Wow!

WE: And that was, that was fun because most signings, it's guys and girls in tow carrying the books for them, and they're looking at them like, "Dear, can we go shopping now yet?" In New York, there's always guys hanging around the door while their girlfriends and the kid are getting the book signed, saying, "Can we go now? Can we go to the bar, watch sports? What are we doing here? It's just some guy!"

MW: (laughter.) That's great that you're managing to pull that off. It's not surprising that it's Transmet, because it's so different.

WE: Right.

MW: It's got politics, it's got humor, it's got over-the-top, satirical violence, you know, it's got something for everybody, but it's written so intelligently that it's not surprising- I mean, you don't really think about many comics bringing women in except, like, you go back to the day of-

WE/MW: (simultaneously) Sandman.

MW: Yeah, exactly. Neil Gaiman.

WE: Which, that was a certain aspect of the female audience. It was college girls. Because the Sandman, both the character and as a comic, was sexually, completely unthreatening.

MW: (laughter.) Yeah? The character himself, you mean?

WE: Yeah. Sexually, completely unthreatening. Pale, skinny guy who would break if he ran fast.

MW: (laughter.) That's an interesting point.

WE: Utterly sexless. So there's no kind of male threat involved in that book. At all.

MW: That's true, and for all his power and arrogance he's actually quite timid, too. (laughter.)

WE: For all his power and arrogance, and yet he gets killed by his sister, you know?

MW: (laughter.) And all she does is take his hand!

WE: Yeah. There ya go. That's why, you know, the female college audience went to that book.

MW: It was empowering (laughter.)

WE: Yeah.

MW: Why do you think they go to Transmet?

WE: Um... (mad, sudden laughter.)

MW: For the very same reason!

WE: There is this element of the female audience that I've took to referring to as the "Fuck Spiders".

MW: (laughter.)

WE: For some reason, a lot of women find that character attractive.

MW: R-really?

WE: Yeah. I think because, um, he's smart and he's savage. (laughter.) I mean, there's a viciousness about the guy.

MW: Oh, definitely.

WE: He's smart, he's very worldly, he's very aware, he's absolutely vicious... but he's also, you know, a short, ever-so-slightly flabby (laughter), physically very weak guy whose bodyguard is a woman who's a full foot taller than he is.

MW: (laughter.) His filthy assistants, I love 'em.

WE: Well, as far as the assistants, Yelena is smarter than he is and Channon's harder than he is.

MW: (laughter.) But they still let him think he runs the show.

WE: Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean, they do the, you know, "Yes, Boss," but, you know, it's quite plain, who runs that thing. By this point, they're almost his nurses.

MW: (laughter.) That's true. His Mom.

WE: (laughter.)

MW: He's sort of got that, like, Sid Vicious, self-destructive rock star mystique, too.

WE: Yeah, yeah, and that's, that's what it is.

MW: He does all the drugs, and he-

WE: It's the strength of, you know, he will kill himself to do the right thing, to do the job.

MW: Yeah, well, I'll actually get back to that later. That reminds me of another question, but we gotta move on here. Speaking of Transmet, myself and so many others basically view it as the greatest comic running right now, and in an interview a friend of mine conducted with you for a long-dead 'zine online a few years back, you mentioned a couple prequels and/or sequels that might be published someday, I think they were Transoceanic and Trans-

WE: Yeah, I had two ideas, I had two ideas for prequels, I might do them and I might not. They're literally just ideas I had during Year One, mentioned 'em to the rest of the team, I said, "Yeah, maybe We'll do 'em, maybe we won't."

MW: So it's nothing you want to go into, like plots or thematic-

WE: No, no.

MW: Okay, just checking up on those. And uh...

WE: Transmet the novel is 60 issues long. And it's that I'm concentrating on.

MW: Oh man, that's gonna be a sad day when that ends. Transmet the novel, but how about Transmet the film? Are you still writing the screenplay for that?

WE: That was something that got put to bed last year. There was this brief flurry of interest and it actually got quite close to at least going into development. Things fell apart, as they always do in Hollywood.

MW: Yeah, Hollywood's got too much bureaucracy.

WE: And I could have got it restarted, but frankly, I was busy. So, I'm gonna pursue that again this coming year.

MW: That's great. Do you have any visions of... Like, my friend and I have been speculating, just for fun, on who would star, we've mentioned everyone from Johnny Depp to Kevin Spacey-

WE: We have been, I have been talking, um, Patrick Stewart.

MW: Really? Oh wow! Wow, that's a stunning idea, I hadn't thought of that-

WE: And if I had my way, uh, Royce would be Robin Williams.

MW: Ah wow, he's a Transmet fan, too.

WE: I think he's a Transmet fan. But, you know, if I had my way, Royce would be Robin Williams.

MW: That'd be good, 'cause he doesn't often play a character like that.

WE: I mean, I enjoyed his comedy immensely, I've enjoyed, yeah, some of the films where he plays the lead, but I think he's a superb supporting actor. Good Will Hunting would have been nothing without him. He created the space in which Matt Damon moved. Matt Damon didn't have the range, but Robin Williams created the space around him where he shines.

MW: He WAS fabulous in that.

WE: He's plainly a very generous actor, and he's a very, very clever actor. I really liked his early films, like The World According to Garp.

MW: You know, believe it or not, I still haven't seen that. To my shame.

WE: Really?

MW: It's one of those, like, inexplicable, "How did you not see this?"...

WE: He made a lot of interesting, very interesting films, very early on. Seize the Day showed what a fantastic range he has. He's heartbreaking in that film.

MW: Oh, he can make me cry just with the looks on his face.

WE: Yeah.

MW: He has so much soul going on that most people seem to lack. A lot of people seem to think it's not sincere, but I don't see that.

WE: Yeah. No, he's absolutely heartbreaking. A lot of his more recent films I haven't enjoyed him in as much.

MW: Well, they do tend to get a little too sentimental.

WE: I hated Patch Adams. I hated that.

MW: (laughter.) There's a lot of that going around. I'm actually one of the few people who likes What Dreams May Come. It could be because I'm a sentimental goof, but-

WE: Um, I liked him in that, because, yeah, it does veer into the sentimental, but there is that hard-edged determination in him.

MW: Yeah, and well it's really dark for all its sentiment, too.

WE: That, you know, "I will NOT give up!"

MW: Yeah, exactly.

WE: I liked that. I liked the steel he shows.

MW: He's inspiring.

WE: Yeah.

MW: Well, and he's walking on those faces in Hell, there's just so much haunting imagery to me, and I thought it had a lot of underlying darkness that people didn't really appreciate.

WE: Yeah. But, you know, I like that in my protagonists. I like that, "I will NOT give up. This is WORTH DOING."

MW: That's why Spider's little rant at the end of issue 3 is so great. You know, "I'm Spider Jerusalem, fuck all of you. Ha ha ha ha!"

WE: (laughter.)

MW: That's one of the greatest, I mean, that was just so affirming, I put that down, I was like, "Ha ha!" I mean, it had me laughing that way, I was so excited.

WE: Yeah, if people got to issue 3, then I had them forever.

MW: Exactly. I happened to pick it up- I was a late bloomer, uh, so I picked up the first trade, Back On the Street-

WE: Sure.

MW: Having picked up the first trade, um, you got me-

WE: I've always thought that if you got to the end of issue 3, then I had you for life.

MW: I think that's true with, yeah... well, actually, with Planetary I think you had 'em with issue one. That's a great hook, you know, "It's a strange world..."

WE/MW: "Let's keep it that way."

MW: That's great. Uh, this might be a difficult question, but what is the single issue or collection you are most proud of, of all your work.

WE: Ooh... (sighs loudly, laughs.) I'm still really pleased with the way I finished out "Back On the Street". Issue 3.

MW: I would have to agree with that. That is fabulous.

WE: I do think that it's still probably the best ending I've written. I'm still pleased with issue 8.

MW: Which one was issue 8?

WE: "Another Cold Morning," that's the Cryogenic Revivals one. The weepie. (laughing.) In spite of that, I'm still happy with it. I recently reread, um, I think it was issue 25, "Monstering," the one that was nominated for an Eisner this year, um, where he goes after the local politician.

MW: (laughter.) Oh-ho!

WE: "Show us your penis!"

MW: Is that where, like, his little face cameras are floating in the toilet?

WE: Yes!

MW: (laughter.) That's fabulous.

WE: Yes!

MW: For some reason, the image of that struck me the other day, though I haven't read it in months-

WE: (laughter.)

MW: I'll forever be haunted by the image of Spider Jerusalem heads bubbling out of a toilet.

WE: Yes, yes, Spider Jerusalem's head emerging from the toilet, "Speak to me!"

MW: (laughter.) That's beautiful.

WE: (laughter.)

MW: Uh, I reread this interview my friend conducted with you-

WE: Uh-huh.

MW: This was probably 3 years ago, for Voice & Vision, a long-dead 'zine, again, and actually he asked sort of the same question and you actually answered that you were happy with Transmet 3 and 8, which is great because you also said, "I usually can't look back at my work the next day 'cause I hate it-"

WE: Oh no, no.

MW: It's so great that 3 years later, you're still content with those.

WE: Yeah, I'm still pleased with those, parts of them and funny bits, I'm still really pleased with. One of the conversations, I must say, I love writing the Channon-Yelena conversations.

MW: (laughter.)

WE: Because this comes out surreptitiously, listening to women talk when they think there's no men around.

MW: (laughter.) How they really think of us.

WE: You know, it's a conversation about how Channon imagines sex with Spider would be.

MW: (laughter.)

WE: As Yelena, "My god, I'm going to be physically ill." She always imagined that when Spider came, it would be like, "A hail of bird shit hitting the back of your womb."

MW: (disgusted laughter.) I like, too, the description of the layers of scrotal, like, flakes and crust that you-

WE: (laughter.)

MW: Very vivid. Almost to the point of discomfort. (laughter.)

WE: And Darick absolutely captured the images I had of the little Spider sperms.

MW: (laughter.) Oh, that's right!

WE: With the cigarettes, and the shades!

MW: That's literature right there, that's golden. I love that.

WE: Couldn't do that in any other medium.

MW: That's absolutely true. Although it'll be interesting to see how Hollywood tries.

WE: Oh yeah.

MW: Is there any genre you've yet to tackle that you would like to give a try?

WE: Um, most of them.

MW: That's good (laughter.)

WE: Yeah, comics are just words and pictures, they're just another way to tell a story, so, you know... I'm doing a piece of historical fiction next year.

MW: Really?

WE: I'm doing a piece of alternate history Science Fiction next year. There's crime stuff, I'm going to be doing a crime series, I'm doing some supernatural stuff.

MW: Are these going to be part of the, I know that Pop Comics isn't coming to pass, but is this going to be like, the manifesto work?

WE: Oh yeah, yeah. The Image, yeah. The first three comics from the Image Central line. The alternate history Science Fiction, crime with a heavy supernatural hit, and historical fiction.

MW: Wow, that'll be great. Can you give us any titles yet, or-?

WE: Ministry of Space is the Science Fiction one, wherein, in 1935, in Germany, the Americans get there to steal the German rocket scientists and find they've already gone and the areas been carpet-bombed by the British, the British have Von Braun and the entire team and all their plans, therefore the first man in space is an ex-spitfire pilot in 1949.

MW: Wow!

WE: Royal space force, as run by the Ministry of Space. The second one is Black Horses, which is the crime drama, with a heavy supernatural touch. And the third one is a hundred-page original graphic novel, black and white, called Morning Dragons. And that is set in the year 1180, Christianity's sweeping across Europe, Buddhism is being secularized in Japan, the rise of Samurai culture, uh... and then, on the northern coast of the main Japanese island one day these two little Viking long ships pitch up, so Vikings versus Samurai on the beach of Japan.

MW: That should be mad and beautiful.

WE: Yeah.

MW: I'll do some, like, really quick, simple things since we're running out of time. I'll go with some word-association: Chris Claremont.

WE: Old.

MW: Garth Ennis.

WE: My best mate. I love his stuff.

MW: Larry Young.

WE: Next big thing.

MW: I almost said, "That no-account Larry Young," but since he's not here to hear it it's no fun.

WE: (laughter.)

MW: America.

WE: Help.

MW: (laughter.) Uh, I just thought I'd throw this in because of your recent comic book store rant: Pokemon.

WE: (short pause, maniacal laughter.)

MW: (laughter.) I think that counts as a word. 2001.

WE: Um... sad. Uh, 2001, for me, when I was growing up, was The Future. We live in, it's one of those dates when you know you're living in the future, and it just turned out to be kind of ordinary.

MW: That sort of reflects what you wrote for Larry Young, for the first Astronauts In Trouble trade, actually, that was a great introduction.

WE: Yeah. Yeah, the future is not what it should have been.

MW: Scott McCloud.

WE: Fascinating.

MW: Alan Moore's Promethea.

WE: Um... enjoyable. It's not Alan firing at all cylinders, I mean I really enjoyed the Sex Issue, but it's, it's not full-bore Alan Moore. It's not From Hell, you know? Have you read From Hell?

MW: I've read only the first 3 issues. I haven't had forty dollars yet for the collected edition.

WE: Work up the forty dollars or whatever it is, you NEED the collection.

MW: I can't believe how exhaustively researched that is.

WE: Oh yeah.

MW: The footnotes alone are so intimidating.

WE: (laughter.) This is Alan's process. But, no, work up the forty dollars, believe me. You will not regret it.

MW: Thanks. I will. I have one last question, not word association, it's Yes or No or, the final alternative, Fuck Off Monte: will Spider Jerusalem die?

WE: Fuck off, Monte.

***

I would like to thank the staff of Comix Experience. They can be accosted, hassled and mocked at (415) 863-9258. Else you can stumble in in person and say, "Show us your penis!" If they remember the quote is from Transmetropolitan (or if you bring them whiskey or beer), they probably won't even have you arrested. Comix Experience is located at 305 Divisadero Street. Warren Ellis is the author of Transmetropolitan and Planetary, among other beautiful books. To learn more, visit www.warrenellis.com.

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